Friday, February 04, 2005
Long Post Ahead...
Ok, I told myself I wouldn't get into this debate on the DL board, just post one thing I had to get out, but now... :-/ So I'm posting it here! :-D
Italics - me
Regular - the other person
Bold - my reply
How can the words "terrorist" and "very moral" go together? Is there a just reason for a group to go around to other countries attacking innocent civilians?? On another level, can unbelievers even really be considered "very moral"?
What defines a "terrorist"? Your definition that you provided in your next sentence was "one who attacks innocent civilians." If this is this case, then Americans are the most evil terrorists in the world, because we have brutally murdered an estimated 45-50 million of our own citizens in the past 40 years.
Actually, I was referring to 9/11. A terrorist is a person/group that performs acts of terrorism. Terrorism is "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."* First of all, abortionists are not "innocent." Secondly, while abortion is homicide, it is not, by definition, terrorism.
Can unbelievers be considered moral? Yes. Jesus recognized this countless of times, but always pointed out to people that it matters little whether they are moral or not for eternity (remember the "whitewashed sepulchers"?). What counts is what is on the inside. In this case though, it is completely valid to say that the Islamic countries are more moral than we. To really get a glimpse of the moral difference, look at the crime rates of both spheres. In Islamic countries, they have solidly cemented views of right and wrong. In America, everything is relative. In Islamic countries, violent crime rates are very low and punishments (always very harsh punishments, mind you) are adminstered quickly so that justice prevails. In America, violent crime is the norm, especially in the big cities. Our entertainment industry (which is a reflection of our morals) even lauds crime and violence. And it is quite easy to go murder someone and then live the rest of your life in comfort and just have your government-hired lawyer keep appealing. The differences in morality between us and them are incredible.
When I took it to this level, I was actually talking about the spiritual side. Unbelievers are not moral. Believers, on the other hand, are pure, clean, moral, and right because we are washed by the blood of Christ!
Now back to the Islamic terrorists, because this is who I'm referring to. They are not moral! God defines morality, and they do not meet up! They worship another god. They believe lying to the infidels (us!) is ok. They believe murdering the infidels (us!) is ok. These sins are even commended!! So some things are overlooked because to their eyes, they are not wrong. And also, just because they have standards does not mean their standards are right! I'm not comparing them to America, but to God's standard. Islamic terrorists are not moral!!
As a side note, if any of you have read any of the Koran, you will find that it commands Muslims to eliminate evil from the earth. Christians are even commanded to do that in the Old Testament. Israel wiped out evil races repeatedly (Canaanites, Moabites, Edomites, and Amalekites come to mind), for example. The so-called "terrorists" are simply looking across the Pacific Ocean and seeing the world's Capitol of Evil. To stop evil's spread, they think that they must kill all the evil Americans who live here in sin. That is why the Fundamentalist Arabs are after us. It is not because we are powerful and they are jealous (although they would like to get all of our power for Allah), and it is not because we are rich and arrogant. It is because we are evil and we flaunt our wickedness and try to spread it around the world.
I've never heard that the Koran says to eliminate evil, but I do know that it says to kill all the infidels (us!). Now compare that to what the Bible says: "Love you enemies," "Do good to those that hate you," and "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." No longer is God telling us to go kill every unbeliever, instead we are to witness to them and bring them to Christ. These Islamic terrorists, because they are driven by the Koran and the promises of rewards, want to kill us because of our faith!!
Equating the "American soldier" with Abu Ghraib is frankly very offensive... Even suggesting that is over the line. Yes, those people were wrong and are being punished; I'm not denying that. But my dad and your dad gave part of their lives to serve our country. Many have died rather than give up their honor and country. These are the ones we should hold up as the "American soldier." To do anything less is to cheapen their sacrifice.
True, not all American soldiers are like the ones at Abu Ghraib, but American soldiers can only be as good as their society. I think that all of us would freely admit that morality in our nation is completely horrendous. Americans try to hold up their soldiers as bastions of freedom and morality and the epitome of American spirit. This is simply not true, and it is quite unfair to these people to place them on such a high pedestal. As far as the 'sacrifice' goes, I respect the fact that these people love their government so much that they are willing to die to allow the USG to continue to do what it wants.
Actually, no! You cannot blame society for man's sins! Should we view the military through Abu Ghraib glasses and hope they someday get it all together?? No! We should hold up the people who have come before them, raise the standard! Admittedly, some people join the military for money or respect, or because they don't know what to do with their lives. But you know what? The "American soldier" is willing to fight because he holds dear his God-given liberties and will die in order to preserve them for posterity.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! -Patrick Henry
*Dictionary.com definition
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Italics - me
Regular - the other person
Bold - my reply
How can the words "terrorist" and "very moral" go together? Is there a just reason for a group to go around to other countries attacking innocent civilians?? On another level, can unbelievers even really be considered "very moral"?
What defines a "terrorist"? Your definition that you provided in your next sentence was "one who attacks innocent civilians." If this is this case, then Americans are the most evil terrorists in the world, because we have brutally murdered an estimated 45-50 million of our own citizens in the past 40 years.
Actually, I was referring to 9/11. A terrorist is a person/group that performs acts of terrorism. Terrorism is "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."* First of all, abortionists are not "innocent." Secondly, while abortion is homicide, it is not, by definition, terrorism.
Can unbelievers be considered moral? Yes. Jesus recognized this countless of times, but always pointed out to people that it matters little whether they are moral or not for eternity (remember the "whitewashed sepulchers"?). What counts is what is on the inside. In this case though, it is completely valid to say that the Islamic countries are more moral than we. To really get a glimpse of the moral difference, look at the crime rates of both spheres. In Islamic countries, they have solidly cemented views of right and wrong. In America, everything is relative. In Islamic countries, violent crime rates are very low and punishments (always very harsh punishments, mind you) are adminstered quickly so that justice prevails. In America, violent crime is the norm, especially in the big cities. Our entertainment industry (which is a reflection of our morals) even lauds crime and violence. And it is quite easy to go murder someone and then live the rest of your life in comfort and just have your government-hired lawyer keep appealing. The differences in morality between us and them are incredible.
When I took it to this level, I was actually talking about the spiritual side. Unbelievers are not moral. Believers, on the other hand, are pure, clean, moral, and right because we are washed by the blood of Christ!
Now back to the Islamic terrorists, because this is who I'm referring to. They are not moral! God defines morality, and they do not meet up! They worship another god. They believe lying to the infidels (us!) is ok. They believe murdering the infidels (us!) is ok. These sins are even commended!! So some things are overlooked because to their eyes, they are not wrong. And also, just because they have standards does not mean their standards are right! I'm not comparing them to America, but to God's standard. Islamic terrorists are not moral!!
As a side note, if any of you have read any of the Koran, you will find that it commands Muslims to eliminate evil from the earth. Christians are even commanded to do that in the Old Testament. Israel wiped out evil races repeatedly (Canaanites, Moabites, Edomites, and Amalekites come to mind), for example. The so-called "terrorists" are simply looking across the Pacific Ocean and seeing the world's Capitol of Evil. To stop evil's spread, they think that they must kill all the evil Americans who live here in sin. That is why the Fundamentalist Arabs are after us. It is not because we are powerful and they are jealous (although they would like to get all of our power for Allah), and it is not because we are rich and arrogant. It is because we are evil and we flaunt our wickedness and try to spread it around the world.
I've never heard that the Koran says to eliminate evil, but I do know that it says to kill all the infidels (us!). Now compare that to what the Bible says: "Love you enemies," "Do good to those that hate you," and "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature." No longer is God telling us to go kill every unbeliever, instead we are to witness to them and bring them to Christ. These Islamic terrorists, because they are driven by the Koran and the promises of rewards, want to kill us because of our faith!!
Equating the "American soldier" with Abu Ghraib is frankly very offensive... Even suggesting that is over the line. Yes, those people were wrong and are being punished; I'm not denying that. But my dad and your dad gave part of their lives to serve our country. Many have died rather than give up their honor and country. These are the ones we should hold up as the "American soldier." To do anything less is to cheapen their sacrifice.
True, not all American soldiers are like the ones at Abu Ghraib, but American soldiers can only be as good as their society. I think that all of us would freely admit that morality in our nation is completely horrendous. Americans try to hold up their soldiers as bastions of freedom and morality and the epitome of American spirit. This is simply not true, and it is quite unfair to these people to place them on such a high pedestal. As far as the 'sacrifice' goes, I respect the fact that these people love their government so much that they are willing to die to allow the USG to continue to do what it wants.
Actually, no! You cannot blame society for man's sins! Should we view the military through Abu Ghraib glasses and hope they someday get it all together?? No! We should hold up the people who have come before them, raise the standard! Admittedly, some people join the military for money or respect, or because they don't know what to do with their lives. But you know what? The "American soldier" is willing to fight because he holds dear his God-given liberties and will die in order to preserve them for posterity.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death! -Patrick Henry
*Dictionary.com definition
